The Inviting Shift Podcast
Embrace the authentic, confident you so you can feel good in your skin and have deeper relationships. The Inviting Shift Podcast focuses on how we step through this messy journey of life confidently so we can feel good about how we show up, have more connected relationships and connect to purpose and meaning. Or in short, how we manifest the lives we crave in practical, tangible ways.
The Inviting Shift Podcast
S3E7: Midlife Healing from Within: Embracing Personal Growth
In this episode of the Inviting Shift podcast, your host Christina Smith is joined by the amazing Jenn Fisher, Erica Manville, and Joanna Klein for a lively chat about all things mental and emotional wellness in midlife. We’re diving into the juicy stuff—like reflecting on our life journeys, embracing our beautiful bodies just as they are, and soaking up the healing vibes of nature and travel. Oh, and don’t forget the power of community and the bravery it takes to welcome change. Each of these fabulous women shares their own personal stories, reminding us why self-care is a must, and why surrounding ourselves with a supportive tribe of women makes all the difference.
OUR GUESTS:
Jenn Fisher is a travel blogger who helps trauma survivors heal through solo travel, hiking, camping, nature, inner child work, and mindfulness. Determined to heal her own trauma, she applied everything she learned across multiple modalities and is now recovered and trigger-free. She has helped thousands of readers overcome fears of solo travel through topics on abandonment, grief, anxiety, sexual abuse, generational trauma, fear, control, and ancestral healing arts. She’s on a mission to help trauma survivors achieve emotional and mental freedom, and begin their own self-healing solo travel journeys.
Connect with Jenn: Website | Facebook | Instagram
Joanna Klein is an international speaker, leader, and coach with over 40 years of experience creating successful personal growth and self-empowerment programs that have transformed lives across the globe. In 2020, Joanna founded Journey to Legacy, focusing her expertise on guiding women to harness the power of their own life stories. Journey to Legacy offers live online courses and workshops that have helped hundreds of women uncover the profound wisdom within their experiences and find healing, self-acceptance, and a renewed appreciation for their lives. Joanna's mission is clear: to inspire and empower women to embrace their journeys and share their extraordinary wisdom and gifts with the world.
Erica Manville, M.Ed. is a dynamic blend of mom, teacher, and artist, channeling her energy into nurturing both her family and her students. She lives in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts, with her partner Bryan, their blended family—daughter Ella Blue, son Keith—and their dogs, Pickle and Barley. Erica is deeply committed to anti-racist education, weaving together English and Visual Arts to empower students to navigate the world with awareness. A natural leader, she has been an active member of the Massachusetts Teachers Association and was the founding chair of the North Adams Public Arts Commission.
Connect with Erica on Instagram here.
HOST:
Christina Smith is a life coach specializing in confidence and self-love in midlife so that women can finally truly like themselves and how they show up for themselves and their relationships.
CONNECT with Inviting Shift & Christina on Social: Instagram | Facebook
FREE GIFT: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here.
Email me and tell me what you think: christina@christina-smith.co
Welcome back to the Inviting Shift podcast. I'm so excited to have you here and our lovely guests Again. It's another week where we have these really beautiful women on and they're all in that midlife kind of space and we're going to talk about how we can keep our mental and emotional wellness through. We have women here that have different ways of keeping their mental and emotional wellness, and I am here for it because I feel like every time I record one of these, it's like something that I'm like, oh, I need that right now. And so here it is. I scheduled it for myself, manifested it, and so, without delay, I just want to have our women introduce themselves. So, jen, can you tell us a little bit about you, all, of what we?
Speaker 2:use to help each other. My name is Jen Fisher. I run a travel blog. It's called Jen Fisher Books. It helps women get started, mostly solo travel, but it really starts way before solo travel. It really starts with a relationship with themselves. It enables you to spend time with yourself.
Speaker 1:Value that time and understand that that is the healing. So yeah, thanks again for having me.
Speaker 3:Thanks, jen and Erica a returning panel been a teacher for a very long time 21 years and I teach right now. I teach 10th grade English in Massachusetts at a high school and for 17 years, before I was an English teacher, I was an art teacher, an art teacher and I'm an artist and a mom and I really care a lot about taking care of my own mental and physical health and I'm excited to be here as well.
Speaker 1:Thanks, erica and Joanna. Last but not least, introduce yourself.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thanks for having me here. I'm Joanna Klein, I'm the founder of Journey to Legacy and we offer virtual, self-guided and also live courses that help empower women to be inspired and really impacted by their own life experiences, so to be able to guide them through processes where they can reflect on their life, do writing, do exploratory exercises that can help them heal, that can help them see the wisdom that can inform their moving forward in their life in a way that is both with intention and with inspiration. And the people that we serve are mostly women, midlife and beyond, and the result of our courses are life review or we have life review courses as well as life story writing, so that those who want to write for legacy can have something that they can share and pass on to future generations. I love hiking, I love all kinds of self-care activities, I love being inspired by other women and finding ways to increase my self-care by the things that I hear that others are doing. So it's great to be here, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Thank you, joanna. And so, as we're talking about mental and emotional wellness, I? Um, midlife wasn't a time that anybody was like, hey, that's a big deal. It was always like, ah yeah, she just doesn't get her cycle anymore. You know what I mean? Like it would just like one day just magically stopped and boom, everything was fine.
Speaker 1:And what I'm finding is like midlife is actually one of the biggest times of transition for me. I mean not just like, um, I move around a lot, not just like location wise, but like mentally I've. I start thinking about different things Like what do I want to do for the rest of my life? What do I think about the relationships in my life? And also we have this whole perimenopausal menopausal thing that like, at least for me, it's been guiding me on how to take care of my body. That's probably the kindest way I can say it, but it's been a lot of hot flashes and emotional disruption. Let's say it's like being an adolescent all over again and feeling that discomfort in my body where I just I spent an hour itching my skin the other day. I didn't realize that was a menopausal thing. Apparently it is and hot flashes and all of these things. So taking care of both our mental and our emotional wellbeing is so important because at least for me because when I'm physically uncomfortable, my mental and my emotional wellbeing go out the door too, because I'm uncomfortable and I don't want to be there and I feel like a spoiled little child or an adolescent. That's just like all over again.
Speaker 1:So that's why, today, I wanted to bring to you these beautiful women who have each have like different ways and different processes and things around how they take care of themselves so that they can be mentally and emotionally well.
Speaker 1:And one of the things I just wanted to start with because I did this last year, joanna had inspired me to do my life review and I did a really short version of it because I wanted to just go in. This is how I am with my personal growth work Go in, get the gold, get the hell out. And so it really inspired me to do this life review, which was really impactful because I started to see the patterns in my life and the ways that my childhood or my adolescence had impacted the way that I lived my life and the wounds that I had, and how they impact the way that I live my life and how they impact the choices I make every day, which has a lot to do with my mental and emotional wellbeing, and how resistant, why I'm so resistant to treating my mental and emotional being well. Right, I mean, I really learned a lot about myself. So, joanna, tell us a little bit about how writing has been inspiring you and your clients to really look at their own well-being in different ways.
Speaker 4:Well, and that's so awesome that you set your own system up and discovered that, because that's exactly what has been my experience too, in diving into my stories. Realizing I've given certain meaning to the stories and experiences of my life, at my memories and my stories, with an open mind and a willingness to challenge the meaning that I've given it, has opened me up to the possibility of looking at it a different way, and one that is serving me rather than not, because I'm one of those that have looked back on my life with a lot of regret. I've had a successful career 40 years of developing personal growth programs in a variety of institutions, and yet I had a really hard time seeing myself as successful. I was always not enough. It never met my own standards, and so it wasn't until I started diving in and looking at my stories and challenging myself that I was able to change that narrative.
Speaker 4:So writing is a way I have found of doing it and I've been through therapy and transformational weekends and all of that stuff has been great. You know self-help books, but for me, the process of writing is what gave me a toolbox of something to lean into and to use on an ongoing basis and to really take a look at as a story comes up, as a memory comes up and it may bring up something that's uncomfortable. Uh, then, to be able to go in and either explore it by writing about it or just through a variety of like exercises that we use in life review, then to to create a different narrative and to see the gold and the wisdom and the lessons and the blessings, and that's turned things, as I said, has been transformative for me and I've seen it be transformative for my clients.
Speaker 1:I love that so much because that's what happened for me. I had a lot of shame about my 20s, which I think you're not living your 20s right If you don't have a lot of shame about them. Um, but like I really feel like I collected so many red flags in my and I used to feel like it was like a victim-y kind of way. But once I started seeing like, oh well, this guy is just a different version of that guy and that guy is just a different version of that guy, I was like, oh, I had a pattern, even though I thought they were all different, like it was the same relationship, just repeated, until, you know, until my divorce, when I was like, oh no, we're not doing that again. And I was really conscious then about what I was choosing. But I think without looking back at that, I wouldn't have realized like I was the red flag collector. They didn't do anything to me. They showed up the way that they promised to show up and I was actually that person.
Speaker 1:And I could also relate that to friendships Cause that's where it's more important to me, because I have a husband now I'm not dating Um but to friendships, like I used to attach myself to women that really didn't have any loyalty, didn't have any like real authenticity to them. So it was like it was a lot of gossip and a lot of backstabbing and it was like, oh, I actually choose, chose these women. And so for me that was like a big part of my mental and emotional well-being was like what are it started making me think like, what are the relationships that I have now and which ones do I want to deepen, which ones might I want to let go of or at least allow them to shift right Is a big piece for me. So for me that was a really, a really big deal. Anybody else have experience? Yeah, go ahead, Joanna.
Speaker 4:Because one thing there's two things that you're saying that I think are really important and one is that taking responsibility for your own part, and that's a very empowering that gives us agency when you start seeing it that way. And it's really important to do that in combination with self-compassion, because so often when we see that and we can go to guilt or shame or whatever, but we were making the best decisions we could make at that point in time, and so it's it's important to, when we do it, to be doing it with that lens.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, learn from the lessons right, instead of it's not to like, bash me or even have regrets, like I needed those lessons in order to have the beautiful relationships that I have with women today, especially, and even my husband. You know that there's a reason why this relationship worked out better than all the other ones is because I I really changed the whole pattern and that was really nice to see. But I love that you talk about, you know, being compassionate with yourself because we didn't know better. I mean, it was really cringy and yet that's me, that's my story, and I know that just the other day on Facebook, I was asking about things that we might have regrets on, and I know Erica's got a few of them.
Speaker 3:I had to write. I had to write. What do you get out of looking back and really looking at some of the history of your life? I think that I really resonate with what Joanna is talking about because I'm an artist and an art teacher that became an English teacher, and seamlessly, because I feel like visuals and writing are very similar. So I think I do something very similar to what Joanna's talking about. I explore visuals in the same way to review my life.
Speaker 3:If you take AP art in high school right now they do something called a sustained investigation. Art in high school right now, they do something called a sustained investigation and you're supposed to pick a topic and do art that's related to that topic. So you actually do a research project, basically what most artists do, especially those that are famous. They work all day long doing a sustained investigation. So it's like you know, I've taught sustained investigations and I was thinking about my daughter who went through early puberty. So she was only 10 and she was my size and people thought she was me. So she went through early puberty. She skipped a grade, six to seven, so that she could be more physically the same size, because she was stooping to be the same size as the girls in her class. She's my size, so I'm five three. We're not tall, but she was just so much taller early. So while she was going through this problem, I was learning how to teach AP art and I was learning how to teach children to have a sustained investigation, which I don't know if you know a lot of teenagers, but sustaining anything for any long amount of time, except for, maybe, video games, is like not a thing. So I was learning that and as an adult learner, I was learning how to teach kids about doing this kind of exploration of their lives which, when you haven't been alive that long, like it's hard to have perspective.
Speaker 3:And I did my own sustained investigation on my body changing because of having a C-section with my daughter and going, you know, from having like one body to then being pregnant and having a different body, to then having a baby and having a C-section.
Speaker 3:And the way that my body decided to react to the C-section is that I have basically two stomachs right and that feeling is hard to have when you like look and you see what you, what your body looks like after that. So she was having a hard time with her body because she was going through her first like dealing with puberty. So I decided to do an investigation of that visually. So I did a series of like 20 to 40 artworks that were all based on my stomach, which I was really like basing it head on, because it was like the thing when I looked in the mirror that I didn't want to see and I decided that if she was going to go through something that was really hard for her, that I was going to try to understand it by going through that hard thing kind of simultaneously.
Speaker 3:Um, and so I feel like that's I think that's the way that I handle this entire subject is Maybe it's because I'm from New Jersey and we like to just be direct, which sometimes may be criticized for being a little too direct, but I feel like the way that I get through some challenges is I just that we can get those feelings out and and you know, crying or talking, or meditating, or hiking, or making something, it's all the ings that help you get through what you're getting through.
Speaker 1:I love that because, even if even those women who haven't had C-sections or whatever, as we get in the midlife, I mean your body's changing anyway. Like, whether you took performance care of it or not, your body is going to change in ways that you never expected it to. I know mine has, and it was a challenge when I realized like, whew, this is what my body. I didn't have a really a tall mirror for a long time and then all of a sudden, one day I did, or I think I was like in a hotel room and I was like, just because it was so shocking to me. But and I did have to do a lot of work, I've done a lot of journaling about it, I've taken a lot of pictures of myself, not for social media, but just so I can review it. You know, almost like an artist, kind of like that like, let me look at it, let me accept this part of me, because this is who I am now.
Speaker 1:And if I don't accept that, I don't like to be that person who's, like, always trying to hide it or, you know, like or try to. There's women who try to dress certain ways to hide their stomach or their butt or whatever, and I'm just like it is what it is. This is me, it's okay. It doesn't mean that I can't change it, you know. It doesn't mean that I can't work on it, I can't do things about it, but there is like a real mental and emotional wellness about being accepting of. This is what aging looks like, and sometimes it's curvier than it used to be, or there's things that didn't used to be there that are there now, or vice versa, or vice versa, not there anymore, um, and that it's been really vice versa not there anymore, um, and that it's been really, really lovely for me, Um, and I know that, for me, one of the best ways I can take care of my mental and emotional wellbeing even though a lot of people, like, associate it with physical wellbeing is like going out in nature and hiking, or, um, you know, just actually sitting sometimes and breathing in nature is so much different than sitting and breathing in my, in my house, um, and so I know that, jen, she encourages women to go traveling, to hike, to see new things, um, and I'm sure that that's how, you know, lots of women help their mental and emotional well-being.
Speaker 1:What? What do you know, jen, about like traveling, and how that helps us internally as we get older.
Speaker 2:I know that being able to be self-sufficient and plan what you want to do and what your needs are and you know your itinerary, every detail it flies in the face of codependency. I do know that for a fact. But I was enjoying listening to everybody's process. I was enjoying how you find the path that works for you. You can still get to the other side, you know, um, and I was listening for the similarities. You know I'm I'm an artist only in that I used art to heal a lot of my trauma and didn't go out seeking or searching it, but yet it found me. You know, um, and of and, of course, just enjoying listening to and being reminded of self-compassion and really was marveling at. You know, christina, your ability to just take a step back and evaluate your life objectively. Like that I could not. Things had to get really drastic, black and white for me to be able to see some of the things that you were describing like patterns, um, like you know, very, very, uh, black and white, um, and dramatic, um, but I did, you know, and here I am. You know, here I sit a very healthy woman, um, even though it was a. It was pretty, you know, traumatizing getting there, um, but uh, yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I think that solo traveling teaches you how to be your own best friend and if you don't, you know if you don't have a great relationship with yourself, you will. After you start taking a couple solo trips, I know it's hard to really identify what is a good or a bad relationship. It's ingrained in what we've always thought. So how do you know if you're not necessarily enjoying your relationship with yourself? You know, and that's again that part of that self-evaluation I've learned a great deal of writing for other women about myself. I think that when we try to teach others wellness mental, emotional, physical wellness we are always helping ourselves. You know, as soon as you like um, joanna said like taking that personal responsibility and then shouldering it for, uh, to be a leader, it's just like, all of a sudden, you know, you just like to your full height, which is your. Your light is shining bright. You know, um, because that's what we need. We need somebody to say like, hey, I'm not afraid to let my light shine. You know, that becomes an attraction, that becomes a light, a beacon for others. But yeah, you know, I find the parts about our body image very interesting.
Speaker 2:I definitely have suffered from anorexia a lot of my life, in teenage years and adulthood, and you know all of that comes back full circle to love myself. You know, even with all of my self-abandonment, you know like that has been the most healing, you know, is to say like I'm not going to abandon you. You know like that has been the most healing, you know, is to say like I I'm not going to abandon you. You know, put my hand on my heart, I'm not going to abandon you, no matter what happens on the outside.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, and the traveling I do find that sometimes it's like, oh, I don't have the money to travel, you know. And and I laugh because I'm like, well, hiking is free, camping is free. Not that everybody wants to hike and camp, but there are ways to find that little getaway that is your joy, whatever it is. Sitting in nature I was listening when you said just sitting in nature is different than sitting in your house. I walked down to the beach on my lunch break and was like, oh, my god, that is so true. Like when I take a deep breath looking at the ocean, it really is different than if I'm in my living room or my job, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's just a lot of really valuable reminder yeah, I think so often we forget that going out in nature isn't just about being physically well, but it's like whew, it helps me at least get out of my monkey mind and into my body again, which is a huge piece for me these days. And, erica, I saw your head bobbing. I know you got something here to say.
Speaker 3:I think that when we were talking about body image and then Jen was talking about shining your light, I really feel like we are most attractive to ourselves and others when we are accepting of ourselves and we're allowing our gifts to blossom in the world and that we are doing the things that we want to do with our lives, independently of anyone else. That other people don't give us happiness. It really is from ourselves. Like that you get the real, you know glow about you. I mean I get that a lot. Like I get told like how do you do all these things? How are you? You know glow about you? I mean I get that a lot. Like, um, I get told like how do you do all these things? How are you? You know, I wake up, I work out every day, I go to work, I walk my dog, like there's all these things that I do as a pattern for me. Um, and you know people like, well, I could never. I get this a lot. I could never do that, you know. And I'm like, well, you know what? Actually, it's not about what I want to do. Like you don't have to take what I do and do it. Figure out what you want to do and do it. There's like all kinds of things you can do for yourself when you wake up, to not immediately just like roll out of bed and go to work right, you could. There's so many things to choose from that you could do. That people find really gives them what they need, you know. So, like Christina's already heard me talk about this but like I did 75 hard and I did it.
Speaker 3:Um, it's. It's this workout thing where you work out twice a day and you you're on a diet. You work out twice a day and you're on a diet. It's very strict. For 75 days I worked out twice a day and just my personality and the way I was brought up, it was super easy for me to do this and people fail at it and if you fail you have to go back to day one. And I just did 75 days straight and did it.
Speaker 3:And we're talking big, big beefy guys go on radio shows and talk about how hard this is to do and I'm just like I did it and I think it's because that's who I am as a person. It's just that I have a discipline. That is important to me and that doesn't mean that my discipline needs to be what you do. You know you could wake up and meditate or just like I don't know color on coloring books or something, just as long as you find that thing. That is what gives you the happiness, is what's going to make you feel good. And when you feel good like really feel good and you're really happy, that's when you're going to shine. You're going to glow to other people.
Speaker 1:I love that so much Cause I was just on a call the other day with a small group. There was two women and they're like their problems were like the opposite. One keeps their day so structured, so busy, that they don't. It's like it's their way of numbing out the world, is like, hey, this is my regimented kind of life. And the other one is so spontaneous, so like in the moment, that she often loses her mental and emotional wellbeing because she's like constantly going and like I don't want to say spastic, but like switching things all the time, and so she doesn't really get to process anything. But both of them are like doing the same thing in one way or another.
Speaker 1:And I guess my point is is that I was never a routine kind of person. My husband's a routine person. You tell him that you know walking 1.2, 1.25 miles every day is exactly perfect. He will go do it every day, he doesn't need to be questioned. He will like he will go do it every day, he doesn't need to be questioned. He will like he has a whole two and a half hour self-care thing in the morning before he goes into his desk to work, and it's just like I could never do that.
Speaker 1:However, my life's been a little bit chaotic is a word in the last few months, and so for me it's like I then needed to add routine. And because there is a piece of routine for me that helps me feel more stable, that helps me feel more emotionally grounded, so like before I turn on my computer, I read, I write in my journal, I set my intentions for the day, right, all these things that Erica has heard me say to my clients time and time again. But you know, I actually had to follow the. I'm like okay, christina is chaotic, let's follow my own advice. What would I do? And those are the things that work for me.
Speaker 1:Some people they hate journaling, but they'll paint in the morning or do something creative or even make themselves a beautiful breakfast if that's what makes them feel good, right. So I love that you were saying like each thing is different for everybody, because I would. The 75 hard is not for me, just like I have a friend nearby where I live that she's a triathlete, so it's like her morning routine is definitely not going to be the morning routine I have, because that wouldn't feel good and it wouldn't be mentally or emotionally kind to myself. So we all have to decide what, what, how much routine do we need in a day around this mental and emotional wellbeing? And for me it's like I need minimal until I need some, and then it needs to be real structured, and I'm not sure, joanna, if you have any kind of routine or non-routine that you do.
Speaker 4:And let's see, I have both routine and non-routine. But before that I just wanted to come back to something that Erica kind of alluded to without saying it specifically, but I know that so many women, including myself, have this challenge. It's that comparison. The friend Erica you were talking about is saying, well, I couldn't do that. So that sets us. As soon as we start doing that to ourselves, so that sets us as soon as we start doing that to ourselves, then we're giving ourselves that negative self-talk. That, rather than diving in and asking ourselves what does work, just like you were saying, with you and your husband Christina, he does one thing, you know, just wanting to presence that, because I think that so much gets in our way when we start hearing about other people's successes with what works or what doesn't work and I am a workaholic really, with the life story, writing and seeing the life review and looking at my patterns is that I found my worth by what I do, and so I've had to really, with intention, set things to make, schedule things so that I will take myself away from work, and one of the things that's worked great for me is to schedule hikes with my girlfriend so that I have a girlfriend for Monday, I have a girlfriend for Tuesday, I have a girlfriend for Friday and we meet and then it's a combination of therapy because we're talking the whole time and then getting out of nature and getting the physical.
Speaker 4:So that's been really good and I I've noticed, you know just, the older I've gotten and and through menopause and on, you know how I've responded to alcohol, for example, and how that's. You know that that shift has shifted for me over the years and making time, that's quiet time and music and just taking those breaks. So yeah, I do it more, other than the structured with my girlfriends. It's more me having to catch myself in the act of self-care. And then, clearly, the writing has been very healing for me.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of women are afraid, and maybe Jen can talk about this. I think a lot of women are afraid, and maybe Jen can talk about this. I think a lot of women are afraid of exploring what it is that would make them happy, and I think there's a lot of barriers to why people have and women have hard, a hard time figuring out what it is that would make them happy and would fulfill them. And I'm wondering if, because when I travel solo, people are like, wow, you did that yourself. Like it's like this, like no one went with you and you went on a mountain and and like no one else was there and I ran into a bear and that was the only other person I saw was this bear. So I'm wondering if, like because Joanna, what Joanna was saying sparked me to think about how comparing is a hard thing to do for yourself, but then figuring out who you really are can be really scary. And going on those solo trips I'm sure is exactly what Jen was talking about.
Speaker 2:You know the easiest way, the easiest analogy is that I learned to become my own best friend, deeper you know. Longer story is that I didn't know I hated myself until I became my own best friend, deeper you know. Longer story is that I didn't know I hated myself until I became my own best friend you know, and so, yeah, there's a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 1:And I think it's both and right, like I think in midlife I've learned to get a better relationship with myself, but it also reminded and it also reminded me that it's really important to have women in a community, and I know I know that all of us know this, because I know that we all have really great relationships with women and we love to be in community with other women, which was something that I didn't realize until I went to a woman within weekend that I was really scared of other women, that I didn't trust them.
Speaker 1:I would have rather been in a room with 60 men than 60 women because it really frightened me.
Speaker 1:Um, and I know that in another podcast episode Joanna talks about this, it was the beginning of season two about the wounds of female relationship, and I don't want to go too deep into that, but go to season two, episode two, if you want to learn more, because it's really interesting. But I do want to go into how midlife's a time where women may have been working, may have been full-time moms, may have been doing all of these things, and now that we don't have PTA meetings to go to or soccer games, it can be hard to meet other women and become friends. Tell you today I wouldn't be as mentally and emotionally well today if I did not have all the circles of women that I sit with, that I can commute, commune with, that I look up to and they actually, you know, are in connection with me because they see something in me too and, like that stuff means a lot to me. So, and I know, jen, you love communities, that women, so tell us a little bit about you. Know what community does for your mental and emotional wellbeing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, um, was really appreciating the reminder of how, at our age, you know, important female relationships are, and I remember how I also felt that way about women. And, you know, I haven't thought about it in a long time and I was thinking, like you know, comparing it, and I realized for me with that is understanding, that what I was projecting out was my dislike of myself. And the only way I know that is because, when I listened to what you were explaining, it was so obvious to me that I love women because I do love myself, and it's not in any way narcissistic or ego, it's joy, it's, you know, belonging, it's a feeling of, you know, excitement, even. And, yeah, I travel solo all the time and sometimes I'll go on a trip and I won't hear those words like, oh, you're by yourself, you know. And sometimes I'll go on a trip and I'll hear it the entire trip.
Speaker 2:It's funny how that works, um, because I'm the same person traveling by myself, you know, um, and when I hear it when I it used to, really, you know catch me off guard and like, put a little, like spring in my step, but by taking on a role to one is other women. All you need to tell me is one or two times that. Like, why are you inspiring? I do. I'm like, well, hey, let's go. You know, if that's the case, that me as you know, I'm a teacher by day like let let me you know um use my gifts and my talents and my skills and know um use my gifts and my talents and my skills, and you know we can go forward together, you know. So now, when I hear like you inspire me, I'm like okay, how can we work with this and move forward as a collective?
Speaker 4:you know, Um.
Speaker 2:So it's really amazing to be able to, um, use your light to guide others. You know, to go back on that analogy, because anybody can really do it, because I didn't have a passport until I was 40 and I couldn't even drive, you know, two hours from my house. You know it was an evolution. It took time, but one step at a time. You know if I can do it, anybody can do it. Mm-hmm, if you have the desire. You know if I can do it, anybody can do it If you have the desire. You know it's just breaking it down into a process or, you know, like a routine.
Speaker 1:You know however, it makes sense to you. You know, if you want to do it, you can do it. There's something about challenging ourselves that I think is so good for our wellbeing that I know that people, especially like in midlife, we can get into this like cozy comfort zone, and then we're like, yeah, I'd like to try that, but you know, seems risky. I could just, you know, sit on the couch and eat my ho-hos and watch a movie or something, instead of going to do that scary thing. And yet there's like something that we need in that right.
Speaker 1:The discomfort and my clients hear this all the time is that discomfort is the price of growth. Discomfort is good. It means we're growing and we want to continue to grow. I mean, if we're not continuing to grow, then what are we? I mean, I'm not quite 50. I'm what? Am I going to spend the next 30, 40 years just in stasis, like just doing the same thing I'm doing today? I hope not, because it seems like I have a whole nother life that I could be living Um and so to just kind of pitch it in and stay in that comfort zone rather than I mean you travel a few times by yourself, or at least my experience was I traveled a few times by myself and I was like I actually like this.
Speaker 2:I like the company.
Speaker 1:I don't have to like worry about what anybody else wants to do. I can just go do whatever I want to do. I can have the food that I want. I can reschedule a day. However, I want nobody's going to care that I'm canceling plans or making it different and I I still get the questions. You went to the beaches by yourself. Yeah, the whole time nobody was with you. Yeah, it was lovely. I could read a book and not worry about entertaining anyone.
Speaker 4:Like it was so lovely yeah, if I can hop in. Uh, christina, because I you know, from my experience and the women that I've worked with, it seems like when we get to this place of like 50s, 60s, there's this you know, we've been on, we we've been driven our whole life in so many ways, kind of on autopilot, you know, taking care of building a career, raising a family, doing all these things towards a life that we thought we were supposed to have. And at some point we look around and go, hmm, life isn't what I thought it would be. And for many of us maybe not all, but for many, and there's some that can be discouraging we can look at that and go get discouraged, and sometimes we just need that space and just give ourselves. That time we become the empty nesters or the career slows down or even towards retirement, and there's a need for some kind of space just to be. And there's a need for some kind of space just to be.
Speaker 4:But my experience has been that then women are like, okay, I want something, I want back to what? How do we take care of ourselves, how do we fall in love with ourselves? And for many of us it's for the first time, I mean, it's like you're not alone, jen. I'm right there with you with having it. I mean, I became an entrepreneur at the age of 65. I'd always wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I never believed I had the capability. So it took me that long to finally say I get to step in. What the hell am I waiting for? You know, I want to do this. Go for it, instead of looking like you know where's the gold watch, I'm going to retire. So it's so much, I think, recognizing. Recognizing that there it is a transition and it is a process and we do sometimes need to just take that break and reset, but that once we then start diving in and doing the healing and whether it's art or travel or writing or, you know, groups- or whatever.
Speaker 4:Then, how do we get ourselves to, you know, to the new source of inspiration?
Speaker 3:Do you feel like the key was that one day you decided to be one an entrepreneur, and then you were?
Speaker 4:It was that I tell people that Bingo, erica. It was just that, it was like, why not?
Speaker 3:That's what I tell people too. I'm like it's so easy, you, but it's hard. But you just say, that's what I am now, and then you are well, but I did have.
Speaker 4:I had to also do something that I I've always been the lone ranger, you know. I've always been like I have to do it myself, and it was a friend confronted me. She's like you can do this, but you're going to need a coach, you're going to need some support. And I have to finally acknowledge that I couldn't do it alone, that I needed the guidance and the structure and and and.
Speaker 1:So that in and of itself was huge for me to acknowledge that and it made all the difference what I love about that is I always say, like the first half of our life is like us doing what we think we're supposed to do or we should do, and then the second half is when we get to choose to do what we actually want to do. But we have to, like Joanna and everybody here has said, we have to have our own courage in order to step into that and go. Well, let me try it. And I loved what Joanna said about taking that break. Like, take that break, rest mamas. You've been raising kids for 20 years, plus some of you. Um, take that rest, figure it out, let your body come back to normal, right, and your mental and your mental and emotional health come back to normal or to even better, and then decide and it's such a weird thing because when we're little kids, like, we don't think about that.
Speaker 1:We think about the marriage and the blah and the blah and the blah, but most of us have checked those boxes by like 40 or 45. And then we're like, oh, I didn't know that I was going to have a whole, nother decades to live, like I thought somehow I was going to be happy just to sit on the rocking chair and wait. You know, I don't know what I thought I was going to do, like I was just going to sit there and homeostasis until like okay, now it's time to die. But we don't make plans for that, which I think is really actually quite brilliant, because we don't know. I mean, if you would tell, ask me when I was little what I would be doing at 60 or 70, I mean, I'm sure it's nothing. At 47, I'm not doing anything I thought I would be doing. So I think it's really lovely to have that break and give ourselves that whole new perspective of what is it I actually want to do.
Speaker 1:Did I want to be an artist when I was young and everybody told me that wouldn't make money, so you can't do that. Now I can go back to art. Did I want to go be a forest ranger? I think it would be a forest ranger even at my age. Um, so whatever the thing is, we can step into that.
Speaker 1:I know that we can have this conversation all day, but what I want to close with is each of you to offer one piece of wisdom, and then you're welcome to share anything about your business or whatever's going on or how to connect with you, and just know that I'll have all of your links in the show notes below, so you don't need to spell them all out. That should make it really easy for people to clickety, click and get connected to you. So I think, um, I, I think I'll start with one piece of wisdom and, um, I think what just having courage right, having courage to step out of that comfort zone, I think is so essential when you're ready, when you're ready. But I think that when we think of mental and emotional wellness, we can think of therapy and all those beautiful things, and sometimes, um, sometimes, it's just having courage to take the first step of whatever it is that we want to dream of. And with that, jen, could you, uh, offer us a piece of wisdom and tell us how we can connect with you?
Speaker 2:Okay. So, um, follow your heart because you're worth it. And then, when you think about those words like you definitely can't get it wrong, because your heart is yours and as soon as you follow it, you'll know that you're worth it. You know because in that act you'll be making that a true statement. Yeah, and I'm at jennfisherbookscom and you know my travel blog has all my resources for overcoming trauma, leading the solo travel, traveling with your inner child. Freebie quiz If you want to see where you are with your readiness, how close you may be Nice, but yeah, thank you for having me Traveling with your inner child.
Speaker 1:That sounds delicious and scary at the same time. Thanks, jen. Thanks so much for being on and having this conversation.
Speaker 3:Erica, my bit of wisdom is you get to decide what your identity is. Get to decide what your identity is. You are the one that matters the most to you and that you may have other people telling you who you are, or you might have had a life where you feel like you didn't get to decide, but you can make that choice now, like know, if that's what you want. You can find me at Miss underscore Manville on Instagram and see my artwork and see what we're doing with my students.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Erica Joanna.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and what comes up for me is this notion of pause, that maybe we can't stop everything that's going on in our life, but we can set an intention of setting time, just quiet time, to connect and reflect that our life is our best teacher, in my opinion.
Speaker 4:And so taking that time to do some connecting with who we are and looking back with compassion and love and curiosity, but just taking that time, making that time for ourselves and you can find me at Journey to Legacy. Find me at Journey to Legacy and I have a 12-week self-guided life story writing course for those who do like the writing process. It's very much a personal journey. It's guiding you on that process of exploration of your life and you get to write your stories. And if that's something that you ultimately want to share with loved ones eventually, I don't encourage doing it right off initially, but to do that exploration through writing. And then, if writing is not necessarily your thing but you still want to lean into your life experiences from the wisdom that it has to share, then my life review course is a 12-week live course online and there's coaching. We meet as a group and so it's for women, midlife women so if you love being in that capacity. We've got that one too, so you can check it out at journeytolegacycom.
Speaker 1:Nice, and I do have a client that's been through it and thinks it's excellent. So I mean it's just such a good process to go through. I think it's perfect at midlife to go through this, that you can really know who you are, as to, like what Jen was saying as well really start to love yourself and then you know, then we can, even when we love ourselves, we can make better connections with other women, we can be in community with them in a better way as well. So thank you all for tuning in, thank you, women, for coming and having this conversation with me. I love that so much and we'll you'll hear again from us next week.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, Christina.
