The Inviting Shift Podcast
Embrace the authentic, confident you so you can feel good in your skin and have deeper relationships. The Inviting Shift Podcast focuses on how we step through this messy journey of life confidently so we can feel good about how we show up, have more connected relationships and connect to purpose and meaning. Or in short, how we manifest the lives we crave in practical, tangible ways.
The Inviting Shift Podcast
S3E2: Embracing Imperfection & Identifying What Truly Matters in Life
In this conversation, Christina, Jen, and Erica discuss the topics of perfectionism, identity, and letting go of societal expectations. They share personal experiences and insights on how perfectionism can harm one's well-being and how embracing imperfection can lead to personal growth. They also explore the challenges of transitioning identities, particularly as mothers and professionals, and the importance of finding and embracing one's true self. In this conversation, Jen Anderson and Erica Manville discuss mindset changes and embracing imperfections in midlife. They talk about allowing oneself to make mistakes and inspire others to do the same. They also discuss the importance of identifying what is truly important in life and letting go of things that don't bring joy, income, or orgasms. The conversation explores mindset shifts, such as recasting the inner critic and being open to change. The guests share their personal experiences and offer advice on embracing one's uniqueness and staying relevant in midlife.
Our guests:
Professional Imperfectionist Jen Anderson is the tech genius behind Accomplist, the to-do app for imperfect humans. As a coach, she helps people ditch perfectionism and overwhelm. A native New Yorker, she knits and makes mixed media art in Los Angeles, California.
Connect with Jen
Facebook | Facebook Group | Instagram | Website
Erica Manville, M.Ed. is a dynamic blend of mom, teacher, and artist, channeling her energy into nurturing both her family and her students. She lives in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts, with her partner Bryan, their blended family—daughter Ella Blue, son Keith—and their dogs, Pickle and Barley. Erica is deeply committed to anti-racist education, weaving together English and Visual Arts to empower students to navigate the world with awareness. A natural leader, she has been an active member of the Massachusetts Teachers Association and was the founding chair of the North Adams Public Arts Commission.
Connect with Erica on Instagram here.
Host:
Christina Smith is a life coach specializing in confidence and self-love in midlife so that women can finally truly like themselves and how they show up for themselves and their relationships.
CONNECT with Inviting Shift & Christina on Social:
Instagram | Facebook
FREE GIFT: The Confidence Tool Kit is here to help you walk into the second half like a queen (because you are one already). Get it here.
Email me and tell me what you think: christina@christina-smith.com
TUNE IN wherever you listen to podcasts:
So excited about this because we're going to talk about some really interesting topics like perfectionism and identity and these things that, at least for me, came up and I was like, huh, is this who I want to be and what is it that I want to be? And so I want to introduce our guests. We have Jen Anderson. She's a professional imperfectionist. Jen, tell us what that means.
Speaker 2:Well, it means I'm not a hot mess, I'm an inspiration. I am a coach, a productivity coach, giving up perfectionism coach, and I have just launched an app called Accomplice. It is a to-do app for imperfect humans. And I am also a freelance writer. I write for a plus-size fashion company for a plus size fashion company Beautiful.
Speaker 1:Thank you, jen and Erica. Erica I have known for several years.
Speaker 3:Tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi, I'm Erica. I am a mom. I'm the mom to a 17 year old daughter and I have a 16 year old stepson, and I and, um, I am a teacher. Um, I've been a teacher for 20,. This is my 21st year as a teacher. Um, so teenagers are in my life, um, at home and at school, at my work. So that's me.
Speaker 1:You're the teen whisperer, yes, awesome. Well, thank you women for being here, and I love that. You're a professional imperfectionist, jen. Tell me more about that, because we want to talk about this topic of like perfectionism, because it used to be one of my identities and I used to really love that identity and then I grew not to like it. So tell us how you got to your imperfection.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, it's a long and imperfect journey. Yeah, I mean I get a lot of migraines. So you know, I fried everything and a few years ago I was doing the mind-body-health thing, which did help somewhat. And a big part of that is that if you are a perfectionist, people pleaser and or had childhood trauma, then, yeah, your brain could be causing pain just to distract you. And perfectionism definitely ties into that. We always think that if we walk on eggshells, that we can actually control it. If we can actually keep from triggering an outburst from somebody, then everything will be fine. And no, that's not how that works. It's a sucker's bet. If someone wants to blow up at you, they're gonna, and it's just.
Speaker 2:You know there's a difference between perfectionism and excellence is the thing. Excellence exists and you know, as a writer, you know I'm not going to just send off my first draft without actually reading it. You know it's there, especially anyone in the creative field. There is a certain level of, yeah, it's not done yet. I'm not being a perfectionist, it's not there, but at some point, yeah, you got to let it go. And you know, especially with my writing, you know what they tell you is that you're. Most people can't tell the difference between your B plus work and your A plus work. So you know there's no reason to kill yourself to get it just right. And you know there are times where the my client has been happiest when I had a migraine. I was just writing something just to get it done and it just all the filters off and they loved it Beautiful.
Speaker 1:What I love about what you just said is I always talk about perfectionism being a moving target. That's what it always felt like for me, because I could get really perfect on something or what I thought was perfect, and then all of a sudden I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh, this could be a little different, and that could be a little different, and this could be a little different. And so, like perfect. It's like hard to get to perfect because it's just constantly moving about, like what does that look like? And I think that we were given this, uh, at least in my house, when I was growing up. You know you have to give a hundred percent to everything. I think that's crap. I think that's crap. I don't give a hundred percent to my dishes or my scrubbing my floor. No, they get done. That's good enough. Done is good, right.
Speaker 2:So there is such a thing as good enough.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, no, go ahead. Yeah, there is such a thing as good enough, especially when it's something we're not passionate about, right? I mean especially, yeah. So, erica, tell us a little bit about your relationship with perfectionism.
Speaker 3:Is that something that you've run into? Yeah, I, as a teacher mostly for my students did go to art school and when is art done, done? There's always the question that all artists are wondering at all times and you really to be an artist? You really can't be a perfectionist because then you would never finish anything. And so, um, a good resource for my students, because, as I was an art teacher for 17 years and I am now an English teacher and special ed teacher and I have had to get kids through that journey of understanding what a finished product is, what an edited product is, what a journey is and what a process is, and that the process to creation is just as important.
Speaker 3:I used a lot of metaphors, you know, like I had a baby and she's great and she's not perfect, but she is to me. So when you create something, you're creating these babies that you know. They have a life of their own sometimes and they just have what it is, whatever it needs to be, and you can keep going like. You don't have to stop. You do with babies but, like with projects, you can just keep going, you know. And so if you didn't like one version of it, you can always make a series. You can. That's why there's so artist series, because you can't have anything be finished enough if you have that idea still brewing, so it's good. It can be a good driver and create more. I love that. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to say, yeah, the one thing that really helped me give up perfectionism was making art. I'm just going to say, yeah, what? The one thing that really helped me give up perfectionism was making art. You know cause it's, it's. I say the key is to find something that you're no good at and you don't care that you're no good at it, and it drove me crazy that I can't. I don't draw as well as I'd like, but for some reason, collages, I didn't care about collages. So you know, years later, I'm making this media art and it's, it doesn't have to be done. It's not great. It doesn't have to go in the fridge. I mean, it's, it's art therapy, it has to. It should be bad and you know, if I ever decide to get better at it, I give my collages away as gifts. I'll cut the big ones up to use them as background for smaller ones. It doesn't have to be done. Which which?
Speaker 1:I love that so much because I, like, in my early 40s, I decided I wanted to start painting. I never painted Erica knows the story but I had really awful art teachers. I did not have an Erica Manville as a art teacher by any means and it took me a really long time to just get to the point where I was like, let me try art again as an adult, and I bought the canvas and I bought the paints and I stared at them for like a year. I was just staring at these canvas, never cracked the paints, and finally I had a friend that came up to me and she was like Christina, what are you doing? Put the damn colors on the canvas and just move them around.
Speaker 1:Because, like Erica was saying, it's really about the process. It's not whether or not you're going to be able to hang that thing up or, you know, think it's perfect or whatever. You're never going to get anywhere. If even practice needs to be perfect, right, like even we're talking about the Olympics lately, and even the Olympians like they have to mess up a lot of times before they can say hey, actually this is the way that work and this is, this is how I'm going to do this. So I think that it's about practice and allowing ourselves not to be perfect. I think starts with like permission, right Permission not to be perfect and being okay with that, claiming the imperfection title because, let's face it, none of us are perfect the imperfection title because, let's face it, none of us are perfect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if thinking that if you start painting, all the masters, most of them started with a mid-grade. So they started with van dyke brown or they started with a rich color because having that white blank paper or having that white blank canvas is so uninviting. But then when you add warmth to it or you just start and taking away from that middle ground a lot easier than starting from zero that's lovely.
Speaker 1:That's a lovely tip, yeah. So just getting something on there right and getting it so that it feels started, and I think that's a really great tip, yeah. So perfectionism was a real problem for me. It used to make me really anxious, and I think most of us know that perfectionism is a way that we avoid embarrassment, ridicule, all those things that we're afraid that you know will happen if we're not really perfect at something, instead of just saying, yeah, I'm human and I'm practicing, and it also becomes this identity. I mean, I know, you know, when I was in the corporate world, like I would be like, yeah, I'm a perfectionist, right, and that's supposed to be a really great thing. And so we can step into some of these identities not really fully understand the impact that they're having on us, because me saying that I'm a perfectionist, well, now I have to show up perfect, don't I? I have to show everybody else that that is absolutely who I am.
Speaker 1:And that part is the part that I think was making me partially ill for so many years is because I was putting so much stress on myself. It wasn't even what bosses wanted from me. It was what I thought I was supposed to be, and again, this might come from childhood trauma. I know mine did because I wanted to make sure that people wanted to stay connected to me and I had a very disconnected family. So I thought, you know, with the perfectionism of course for me came people pleasing too. I don't know if anybody here has that issue, but people pleasing definitely came along with it because I wanted other people to be happy and I really thought that if everybody else was happy around me I would too be happy. Anybody else have experienced the people pleasing?
Speaker 2:No, no, no.
Speaker 3:Very much me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you put other people first and they're never happy. You know, that's one of the things that I absolutely love about being middle-aged. I've just given up. I've realized there's no water in some of those wells, and fine, you know it. Just it is and is. And you know my brother, I have this quote, that from my brother, um, who moved all the way across the country in his early 20s.
Speaker 1:it's sanity is directly proportional to the distance between you and your parents house you know that explains a lot in the last five years of my life and why I've been so peaceful.
Speaker 3:What do you think about that? Um, my child left home at 13. So I mean, I have to assume that that's part of it. Um, and she is now going to go to college. Um, but she's not that far. Um, I, I live with my um soon to be mother-in and I can totally understand that. I mean, mother-in-laws are different.
Speaker 3:I think when I think of people-pleasing, I think about that we don't always add ourselves as one of the people and like it's okay to include yourself. I don't know if it's American culture or what, but not including yourself is seen as better than including yourself, like not being too like stuck on yourself or like selfish. And my mother has instilled in me that I should never think about myself, and I think that that's the problem is that you should include yourself in who you're thinking about and considering. And so I think that I remember exactly when it was. I'm 48 now, I was 38. I can remember exactly what happened when I decided I was no longer going to not include myself.
Speaker 3:I was going to make sure that I added myself in, and you know, those kinds of decisions take time and I feel like it's perfected over a decade and at 48, I can really say that I spend a lot of time helping myself and getting over the shame associated with caring for myself in a way in which I feel like I'm a good person and I can say those words to the mirror, mirror work yay and be okay with it, because I've had the courage to allow for a decade for me to think and add myself into the equation when I'm making decisions.
Speaker 3:So, you know, obviously working with Christina has really helped, because working with women and being in a women's circle like allows you that grace to care for yourself in a way, because you have women cheering you on to care about yourself in a way that is really authentic. And when you have those feelings of shame or feeling like embarrassed that you actually considered yourself in that moment, usually the support is, of course, you should, you know, and so I think having like-minded individuals around you is really important for that.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. Would you mind sharing the moment that you decided that you needed to be included? Is that something that you'd be willing to?
Speaker 3:share.
Speaker 1:If not, you can say no.
Speaker 3:Please, I would love to. I had my baby at 30 and I got a divorce at 32, 33, something like that. 32, 33, something like that and I'm not good with numbers or remembering dates, but so my child was about eight, yeah, and I was between relationships and I had a boyfriend that worked in Antarctica for six months out of the year and he had sworn off Antarctica and he was going to just be with me and my kid and we were going to get married. And then he was gone for six months and four months and he broke up with me on FaceTime there's no other way because you're like iced in in Antarctica and so I had been really working on myself during that four months and had really been trying to create space for myself and I had read some Gabrielle Bernstein books about like caring for yourself, and I'm forgetting the word that putting the ing in your life was the subtitle.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I was doing a lot of like, working out and and really trying to help myself. And when he broke up with me, I was in this like space of like, really trying to connect to him spiritually. And so when he broke up with me and he broke up with my child, who was like devastated, long distance it. It's like that energy shifted that I was spending trying to connect with him long distance and I started to. I said you know what I deserve that all of that energy I'm trying to connect to another human being. As a single mom, I should be spending that energy for me and and for being that mom and being the kind of person that I would want my you know then eight-year-old to grow up to really like understand that being a strong woman is important and caring for other people are important, but you should be able to care for yourself that's so lovely.
Speaker 1:I remember when it happened for me, which was I was in therapy, and it was like the first time somebody had asked me, christina, what do you want? And I was like, well, I want to be a good wife, I want to be a good mom and I want to be a good friend, and the therapist was like, no, that's not what I mean. I mean who you want to, what do you want for yourself? And I didn't have an answer. I mean, and I've been on, like you know, a 15 year trek finding that answer and finding different answers for that, and it's something that I still think about is like, wow, am I trying to be something for someone else, or am I actually showing up as me someone else, or am I actually showing up as me? And that's really because I can wear so many masks.
Speaker 1:Um, and so I went to many, many different schools and I was a different person in every school that I went to, because I was in high school or middle school and you know, you want to fit in and you want to be accepted. So the first group that would accept me in was like my group. So I went from like metalheads to the preppies to the athletes. I mean it was crazy. And so if I went to like a football game where there was multiple schools, nobody recognized me because I showed up differently for each one of those groups and that had a huge part of my people pleasing. And you know, at the time that was the only tool I had in my pocket to be able to survive all that you know transition that I was going through. But really, when my therapist asked me and then she was like that's what you want to be for other people, where you want to be for yourself, and I thought that that was so amazing. Jen, do you have a story about breaking up with people, please? Do you know?
Speaker 1:when you decided that it was no longer for you.
Speaker 2:Gosh, I don't know. I mean, it's for therapists, is the charm, I think it's there. There was a workbook called Healing the Inner Child or something like that, and my therapist at the time gave me assignments Okay, do this chapter, do this. And you know it was transformative, it helped so much. You know when. You know, because when you're in it in certain experiences you're just trying to tread water.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was in my early thirties, you know when I was in my early 30s, I called up my mother and looking for sympathy, full that I was, for a guy who had broken my heart. And she then went on in on this long onslaught about all the times that she had her heart broken before she got married. And we're talking like 40 years earlier. You know, in retrospect you're like're like, okay, that was just gotcha, that was just absolutely ridiculous reaction. And but at the time I was just like I, yeah, at the time I was like, but what, what do I do? And taking myself a little bit immediately afterwards, but years later I'm like there was no water in that well, went to the wrong person. I mean, you know, look back, I, you know it's weird, it's you get to a certain age and it's just like I just ran out, I just couldn't care anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah so we've been talking about people pleasing and perfectionism and how these can be two identities that we have a hard time letting go with. Um, and my struggle with identity is that sometimes when we call ourselves something, then we box ourselves in, and one of the biggest identities for many of us and Erica, I know that you can speak to this because you're having kids growing up and getting out, just like I have that mom becomes identity for a lot of people that, if we have kids, we suddenly, like that becomes our whole identity.
Speaker 1:For some people it wasn't for me, but for some people that could become their whole identity. And then they have a hard time letting go of their kids. And they, what I find, is the women that come to me in midlife. They're letting go of their kids and they're like who am I now that I'm not a full-time mom? Who am I now and this can also happen in retirement, right, like if I've been a lawyer my whole life. Now that I'm retired, I'm not a lawyer anymore. Really Like, so how do I let go of those identities? And what I loved about what you were saying, jen, is that I believe that midlife is a time where we start questioning ourselves more Like is lawyer or mom the only things I want to be? Can't I have a whole? I mean because at 50, we still have decades to live. I mean, god willing, we still have decades to live.
Speaker 3:I mean God willing.
Speaker 1:we still have decades to live, and so how do we shift identity? I'm curious to hear both of your answers about that what is it that you've been doing to maybe let go of identities or at least shift them or transition them?
Speaker 3:I think for me it's to be really thoughtful. When we started this and we introduced ourselves and you wanted us to tell a little bit about ourselves, I resisted the urge to say I'm a teacher, because I don't a teacher and not be a teacher at your job. And I feel like I am naturally a teacher. But I've been trying to have those different parts of myself as important as part of my identity. So when people say, well, what do you do? I don't, I try not to always say teacher or I work as a teacher, because I know that's what they're really asking, but to talk about other parts of myself more often, because voicing it is really part of internalizing it. And so I guess one thing I talk about is being an artist. When I have to do a bio, you know, for anything, I like to not include my job first because it isn't really my priority. It's a means to an end, but and it is something I enjoy, luckily I have a job I enjoy, but most of the time. But to say I'm a hiker, I'm an artist, I'm an empath, I'm a caring person, I like to add in that those details because you know, teachers can be all kinds, you know like there can be all types, as you were talking about. You're never having a good art teacher, like.
Speaker 3:So I want people to know what kind of person I am. That I'm. You know, I spent a lot of my life in school not talking, was selectively mute. So instead of saying well, I was mute, I say I was a really good listener, you know like, and I was. So. My superpowers are that I am empathic, I am caring, I am loving, and that's really what informs my teaching. It's not that I'm some sort of expert trying to like fill the minds of children, because sometimes, honestly, if I'm teaching art or teaching English, I don't even get to it, because the most important thing is what they're going to remember is how I treated them as people. So I guess the way I get through that part is I really just add agency and credence to the different parts of of me and feed them and talk about them.
Speaker 1:I love that so much because what I'm hearing is that you talk about your gifts and your strengths, rather than a title Like I'm a creative, I am a caring person. I am, you know, I do have children, that's okay, but I'm not just mom and I'm not just a teacher, because even moms can show up very differently, can't they? So explaining the type of person you are. I love that so much because that goes down to, like my core values, strengths and gifts, and those things don't change right. Like those are things that we can. We can hang on to for a very long time where identities tend to shift. Thanks for sharing that. How about you, jen?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's, it's, yeah, my identity it's. It is amorphous. I think I do actually need to work a little bit on figuring that out. I mean, yes, I'm an imperfectionist, I'm a hot mess, I'm a lot, you know, and I have a lot of different jobs and a lot of different things.
Speaker 2:But I live in Los Angeles recently this is the past few years and when I first started going to, you know, groups with meetup, there was a group that was people over 50 or over 40, whatever it was. It was my people and they were not my people, you know it was. I just wasn't feeling it. And I went to a gathering of the Burbank Ladies Science Fiction and Fantasy Book Club and those are my people, those are absolutely my people, and it just clicked, it's just, you know people who want to consume media, who want to talk about it, who just love different forms of art that are not necessarily museum art, and so, you know, it's hard to say, during the pandemic, I got a little in touch with mortality and thinking about that and I read when Breath Becomes Air by Paul Calentini, who was a neuroscientist and a writer, and he talks about finding your life's purpose and I realized, yeah, okay, my purpose is to help other people stop beating themselves up, because I did that for a very long time and I want other people to join me.
Speaker 2:You know, it's fantastic. I want to send ripples out into the world. So you know, let them inspire other people, because every time you're okay with your own mistakes and imperfections, you're giving other people permission to do the same. And you know, like when I write about clothing, it's all about what styles are good. Give you the room to move and breathe. It's not every style is for everybody and the problem is with the style, not the body, and for a lot of us, that is just mind blowing, yeah, and how we identify with that.
Speaker 1:So wonderful. So what are the major mindset changes that we need in order to either drop identity or, like I like to believe that in midlife we start giving less thoughts about things and we can just let go of a lot of stuff. Right, that isn't really important. And even, as you said about the pandemic and thinking about mortality, same thing, right. I'm getting to this age where I'm like I just don't care. I don't want to have to care about certain things that aren't that important to me, whereas, you know, when I was younger, I could get caught up in any drama. But now my mindset is like, is this important? I believe somebody said does it give you income, orgasms or joy? And if it doesn't, then we don't need it, we can get rid of it, and I don't know that we can do that with everything right we still have to do some things.
Speaker 1:And at the same time, there is a big shift that happens in my mindset about what is important and what isn't important in life. And I'm curious about y'all how have your mindsets changed over time about y'all? How have your mindsets changed over time? Or?
Speaker 2:what are some mindset shifts that you might have had in midlife? Well, one thing that I did was I, I recast my inner critic and you know I'd walk into my kitchen and it's a mess and I'd hear my mother and my aunt in my head and you know criticizing, and I changed it to, you know, the voice of someone who doesn't like me and I don't like them, and that's fine, and it became so much easier to just mentally go, get out of my kitchen, just go away, oh, and tell this person off, because, yeah, my mom and aunt, I, you know, I respect their opinion. I think I'm garbage and I respect my opinion. I know me better than anyone else and it's the 1980s. Mom would have criticized the 2022. Mom came for a visit and stood in my kitchen and was like, yeah, it's fine. You know they would not be rude enough to say that. So it's people who don't even exist anymore in our heads. So, to make it someone else, it did help to be able to not absorb that criticism best love way.
Speaker 1:Thanks, jen. Why are you erica? What kind of mindset changes have you had?
Speaker 3:I think, that, having a controlling mother, creative brain, a listening brain, at first it was just easier to allow someone who really has a lot of loud and strong feelings about how things go to just follow that. But I did have that independent streak and left home and went farther away than any of my siblings. I have two younger brothers and they've stayed pretty close to where I grew up in New Jersey and I was seen as like the radical because I went to upstate New York for college, to Alfred University, and went to art school. It wasn't practical, you know, and sort of like forged my own way. I think I did it by accident. I didn't realize that I was going to a school that was based on the Bauhaus movement. I had no idea what that was. So they probably told me and I had no idea. And basically what it is is a German movement in which you become free because you know everything. So it's really interesting. So if you can make a lamp, throw a vase, make a painting, do a drawing, you can do any kind of artwork at all and you have the skills to do it, you can do anything. So and I also had a. You know I'm Gen X, so I already had that going for me where we're of the generation, where, if you don't know how to do it, you figure it out.
Speaker 3:You know, I learned how to type on a typewriter. Then I learned how to like in middle school. Learned how to do it you figure it out, you know. I learned how to type on a typewriter. Then I learned how to like in middle school. Learned how to, you know, program a computer. Then, when the internet started, I learned HTML. You know by hand. So it was just one of those things where I'm just used to things changing, I'm used to there being a new thing, I'm used to those types of things, and so I feel like I just embraced that part of myself where I was like you know what.
Speaker 3:I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm sure I'm going to figure it out, even this weekend. I went to Chicago, to Lollapalooza, last weekend with my child and her best friend and they're in a band together and they're called Catskill. They don't have anything out yet, but look for it. They're really great kids, and so I know I'm 48. I'm going to a music festival. It's hot, I walked eight miles one of the days, eight miles, and it's good food, actually at Lollapalooza. So go there if you want some good food. But it's just thousands and thousands and thousands of people. It's overstimulating for an introvert like me.
Speaker 3:But what I was thinking in my head was first off, I went. My intention was for me to bond with my child, with my kid, and I knew that she was glowing, this was her time, and so it didn't make it about me, and that helped me to not internalize the struggle of being hot, being tired, being old, not being able to sit. You know, like stuff like that, my feet hurt. But you know, like I was trying, I was trying to make sure two other people didn't get dehydrated, stuff like that and instead of focusing on just that, I was like you know what? I don't understand the music of these kids, like why don't I try? You know the deaf ones were there, which you know, I know them.
Speaker 3:I opened up to the possibilities that I could enjoy what they were enjoying and that I could try to see what it was like for them what they were enjoying, and that I could try to see what it was like for them. And I think that that it was a key to my happiness in that moment, because I wasn't listening to the like. You know, every, every adult I asked to go with me, by the way, was like you're insane, fuck that. Like I'm not, like I've done enough of that. And I went to one of. You know I've been to the Lollapalooza's in the 90s, you know. So I knew what I was getting myself into. Instead of thinking that way, I just thought how can I? Luckily I'm physically capable, you know enough, and I could make it about the journey of the process of that instead of you know all the other voices.
Speaker 1:I love this. How can I love this question, right, like, how can I engage with what's going on right now, even though all of this other stuff is going on? And I know that Jen talked about the inner critic earlier and I know we all hate to word victim right, we're in our victim because you could have easily gone into your victim, right, and I like to switch that around and say you could have gone into your wounded child right With. I like to switch that around and say you could have gone into your wounded child, right, that part of you that's really uncomfortable in the moment and doesn't really want to be where you are and want something different. That's my wounded child. She shows up a lot lately and she's like I don't want to be doing this, I don't want this, I don't want things to be this way. So I can easily give in to that way to child if I want to, or I can recognize it and step into a different part of me, like you did, and be like hold on. What is my purpose? What is the goal here? Right, it's about my kid getting what she wants out of this event and it's me being able to be joyful for her that she's getting what she needs out of this event, and I think that that's really great.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I wanted to touch on is and we've done this in coaching is I know you're an early adopter, so your mindset shift. You are really great at shifting your mind right. I think that you can shift from one thing to another, you can open yourself up to things that might make me a bit uncomfortable, even as a coach, and you're really good at just jumping in things. Now I am of the 80s too, or the Gen X generation as well, and so I know that I can go out and do things. Doing things and me switching my brain is like two different things for me, whereas for you I am more like your fiance.
Speaker 1:I know we've had this conversation where you want other people to try it first. We want to know that it works. We want you to convince us that we have to change, because I'm not really into change unless there's a reason. I need to change and you do it for fun. Need to change, and you do it for fun. Like you need to like shake up your life on purpose, because that's what keeps you like, you know, going, as you love to shake up, and so I guess I'm saying this so that people out there understand that there are different aspects. Some people are really great at mindset shifts. Um, I'm a coach. I still am a late adopter and I still have to know that there's a reason why I'm shifting before I do it, because just I don't want to do the work. I don't like change, I want things to stay the same, even though I know that's never going to be the truth, and I know that I would get bored if they did stay the same at some point just not as quickly as you are.
Speaker 3:I um, I feel like my years and years of being tentative, um, and not speaking, my mom made, made sure I was like afraid of the water, like don't go in there, you don't know what's in the water. You know like afraid of like mostly everything. Oh, don't try that, we don't know if it's okay. Um, and I think that the years of that and not talking gave me enough of that time. You know, like I had like 17 years before cause I was 17 when I was in college of of not talking, not trying things, so like I had that that time to not do things. So now I feel like I'm waking up for lost time.
Speaker 3:And when I was a teenager somewhat I remember this day, I have a weird memory. I remember almost everything about this day where I was eating a pickle and I was like I don't know if I like pickles. And this person looked at me and she goes well, why don't you just decide to like it? Then and I was like like brain like exploded, like I mean, don't I try to like, just say I like it. You know and it's amazing how much words are spelled.
Speaker 3:So I say this all the time if you constantly wake up and say I hate this, this sucks, like I hate waking up like it's the morning, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks, it will continue to suck. Um, but if you keep, if you try to say you know what, I'm waking up this morning, it's not so bad, like I'm not expecting you to change completely, maybe decide in that moment, just one tiny moment, that it's not as bad as it seems, or maybe you do actually just like pickles and I think that that an art school kind of I mean, it was like boot camp, my art school, so it was like you know, you're gonna learn how to make a lamp right now.
Speaker 3:I've never made a lamp before. Well, you better do it, because you're expected to have a lamp in three weeks, you know. So like stuff like that, I think helped me I almost said broke me one or the other. It's it's more like changing.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we need a little break before we can make a mindset change, at least for us late adopters, that's for certain. That's for certain, jen. What are the mindset changes that you've had?
Speaker 2:And like how? How are you a late adopter or an earlier adopter? I'm definitely a late adopter, you know know, I absolutely hate affirmations because they work.
Speaker 2:Why, oh my god, it's just so dorky. It's just because the generation x thing it's oh, it's so uncool but it works. It is just so annoying that I put off trying them for so long and they're so effective. So definitely a late adopter. But one thing that has helped me is the Generation X. No one's paying attention. Because no one's paying attention. I sold a personal essay about how I love that. My marriage is boring. I just love it. Because I grew up in chaos and my brother read it and he was like, okay, no, it's good, mom's not going to like it. My mother's never read it. It has been years and, yes, I went from. My parents do not understand what I do for a living. They don't pay attention to me. They don't pay attention to me. This is crazy. Pay attention to me. This is funny and and that helps this mindset of there's no permanent record, there's, there's no judge looking out after me. Condemn me, it's okay, I'm free, I can do whatever yeah, that is a mindset shift, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I love that so much because I think that it really is, whatever we put on it. I know when I was in my corporate job, when people started asking me, how's it going? How's it going? I'm like it's fine. It'll be fine, it'll be fine, right. And that was me, it'll be fine. That was me Like it'll be fine. They knew that I was way overwhelmed and that I didn't know if it was going to be fine. I'm telling you it's fine. It means I don't know that it's going to be fine, but I can do that.
Speaker 1:And what I loved about your affirmations is I also resisted affirmations for a very long time, even though I used to. It's fine. That was more of a shut up. And let me figure this out Affirmations for me, they have to have at least an ounce of truth, and so if there's people out there that are listening to this, I'm sure that there's other Gen Xers that are like affirmations.
Speaker 1:I hate that stuff because I could sit there and tell myself every day that I am beautiful and perfect the way that I am. I am beautiful and perfect the way that I am. But if I don't believe that at all, that's hard for me to step into. So for me it's like make it a little bit true. I'm open to seeing how I'm awesome and fabulous. I'm open to seeing how I'm beautiful and perfect. You know that way at least, still looking for it right, I'm still have my brain and what is beautiful and perfect about me, and it feels somewhat true because I can say that I am open to seeing that. Of course, we're all open to seeing our own awesomeness, aren't we? But for me first to say that I am awesome is like it just didn't feel right and it felt icky. So instead my brain was like no, you're not, look at this, look at that. Do you remember that time? You remember this conversation? You're not awesome. Do you remember all this? And so my brain would fight it so, um.
Speaker 1:So this little tip for those of you out there that might be thinking about this um, just make it an ounce of truth in there that, even if you don't believe it, now that you're open to believing it, I'm open to seeing my awesomeness. Of course I am, um, and then at least we can keep our eyes focused on what it is that we want. And Erica knows I always talk about intention, and tensions are feelings, and I'm sure that there's other episodes in which y'all can go and find my whole process on this, go and find my whole process on this. But it's really about where we're keeping our eyes, because we can go between survival and thriving, and survival is I'm focused on all the things that I don't want in my life, meaning the sharks in the water, or that I don't like this part of my relationship or this part of my job, and if that's all I'm focusing on, that becomes my mindset in my world. Right, it's like the blue colored glasses instead of the rosy colored glasses, but if I'm focused on. Hey, I really want to feel open and bold today. Then I can find ways to be open and bold, right, so, and we can hold both of those.
Speaker 1:So, just a reminder to us that our words do really matter. I mean the way that we talk to ourselves. Um, even jen, you recognizing your aunt and your mom's voice in your kitchen, like recognizing that hold on, that's not very kind. My inner child is not going to like that. Um, what, what would actually serve me in this moment? Um, and I think that that's really important. All right, so we are going to close out by having each of you maybe give us one piece of advice on midlife for um, around the topics that we talked about today. Does it have to be related? I know I'm putting you all on the spot. I didn't tell you about this, so I want you to. If you want people to reach out to you, feel free to share how they can connect with you and share that one piece of advice. Who wants to go first?
Speaker 2:I guess my advice is be the weirdo. Do you want to be the nice little lady or do you want to be that wacky old lady who wears outrageous clothes, who everyone is paying attention to and it makes everyone's day that you know? Just to see this person being 100% themselves? And yeah, be the weirdo. They can find me and all my stuff at accomplishedapp. It's the word accomplished, but with a T instead of an H, and autocorrect is the bane of my existence on the Facebooks and the other places. It's team accomplished. And yeah, the app is available for the phones, the iPhones, and for the Googles the Android.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, it's a to-do app where you can mark things skipped because we try to do too much and at the end of the day you feel like garbage. So some things you skip. And for repeating tasks, some things that if they show up every day, they're not going to show up as overdue the next day, even if you don't touch it, because there's today's version of it, so today's meditation it's not like I have to make up for not meditating yesterday. So there's that and there's a delegated status, because we always forget that there are people we can ask for help and the delegated stuff goes off of our list and onto a delegated list so we can go look and and if you have to follow up, you'll look at that list. It's not my thing that I have to do now. So it's yeah, it's designed to help you reprogram your brain and shift your mindset and just get used to being imperfect being inspired to be imperfect and being good with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that so much because some of those apps they want you to like, oh, this is all overdue. That's why I don't use any of those to-do lists, because it gets too chaotic, and I love that. It's like physical form of like allowing yourself to just let go of things and start today fresh, beautiful I'll be your first new user because it sounds great.
Speaker 3:I did just well. A couple years ago I did 75 hard, which is for 75 days. You do a list of things and if you skip any of the things, you have to start over and do it again. It's like the opposite of your app and I did it first time. By the way, anyone who knows what 75 hard is, I did it first time all the way through. I did not have to start over because I'm awesome, but I do the thing all the way through. Did not have to start over um, because I'm awesome.
Speaker 1:Um, but uh is what it is, I do the thing.
Speaker 3:I. If something needs done, I do it like I just do it. So my piece of advice is, um that you're relevant, that getting older does not erase your relevancy, that you are important and that you can still have dreams and you can still have long-term goals and you can still have short-term goals and you can still change your goals and you can change your whole life and you can change what you're doing. And it's scary, but it's like something that if you feel like you need to do and your life feels dull or meaningless, that doesn't mean that you can't just change it. Like I used to think. You know, like everyone thinks when you're young, that you will someday find figure it all out, right, and then you realize that that's not happening, like like, maybe someday when I'm 30, I'll like know what's going on and like, no, I do not know. Someday, when I'm 30, I'll like know what's going on and like, no, I do not know. Um, and you never know.
Speaker 3:And there's um a lot of comfort in not knowing and there's um, pima Chodron said, says it like this she says there is no ground that we're searching to be grounded, and really that's an illusion, isn't? There is no time where you are going to feel completely stuck around it. Yeah, I figured it out. So, in the spirit of that, just know that you're not going to figure it out, it's going to be okay and that you'll have it done. Just enough, right, to go back to the perfectionist part, that sometimes it's just done and you move on and and that's good. Um, yeah, and you can find me at miss man, miss manville on instagram. It's miss m-i-s-s underscore manville. My last name m-a-n-v-i-l-l-e.
Speaker 1:Like a village of man links below too, so that people can easily click on them. Um, thank you both for being here. I appreciate you both so much and all of the insight and wisdom that you've been sharing, and thank you, audience, for tuning in. We'll talk to you next week.
