Are you feeling sandwiched between the responsibilities of child-rearing and elder care? You're not alone! Listen in as we welcome our special guest, Mary Remmes, a seasoned nursing home administrator and life coach. Mary captivates us with her wealth of knowledge on handling the complexities of health care for the elderly.
With Mary's empathetic insights, we delve into how to listen to and understand our parents’ needs and goals. We tackle the hard but necessary conversations without making our parents feel defensive. Mary's strategies on how to approach these conversations with compassion and understanding are invaluable. She offers advice on how to gather information, initiate small dialogues and respect that our parents' life goals may differ from ours.
Finally, we broach the topic of those tough conversations with our parents. Mary shares her expertise on handling our parents' fear of the unknown and how to avoid rushed decisions. She emphasizes the importance of evaluating the situation objectively and respecting our parents' wishes, even if they make us uncomfortable. Ensuring a safe environment that doesn't compromise their independence and dignity is paramount. You'll come away with actionable advice for balancing your relationship with your aging parents while ensuring their needs are met. So, join us for this enlightening and much-needed perspective on caring for our beloved seniors.
Mary Remmes is a certified Life Coach & Aging Parent guide.
She leverages her years of experience as a licensed nursing home administrator with her skill as a life coach to help adult children navigate the ever-changing landscape of life with an aging parent.
Her own mother suffered from dementia & Mary, along with her 4 siblings, experienced the myriad of circumstances and emotions that come with caring for an aging parent in decline & in need of care.
As your life coach, she will help you create more of what you want in your life with an aging parent.
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Well, welcome back shifters. This week, our guest is Mary Remmes, and she is going to talk to us about managing the care for our aging parents, and I know that this is happening for a lot of us in midlife. I think they call us like the sandwich kind of generation, where we're still raising kids and we might be caring for older parents as well, and so I don't know much about this subject. So I thought I should reach out to someone who really knows something about that, and that is Mary. Mary works with people to help them manage those relationships and manage how to move forward in a good way with our aging parents. So welcome to the show, mary. I appreciate you being here, thanks.Mary Remmes:
Christina, I'm thrilled to be here. I love talking about all things old people- Well, fantastic.Christina Smith:
Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you got to doing what you're doing, and then we'll go right into it.Mary Remmes:
Sure, I actually started out my career as a nursing home administrator and that was kind of my accident. It turns out that's exactly what I was supposed to be doing. So I worked as a nursing home administrator and then started having children. So I was home raising my children for about 18 years and when I decided to go back to work, I knew what I wanted to do, and it involved working with the senior population, but not in the delivery of long-term care as an administrator, because that had become really more regulatory and HR issues, which is not what I wanted to do. So I got involved in providing companion care to seniors in their homes and then experienced the benefit of a life coach myself with another family matter and I had. It was like an aha moment. It's like I can help so many people, so many more people, as a coach for adult children as they navigate everything that comes with an aging parent. So I'm able to pair what I know about the delivery of long-term care as an administrator, understanding the complexities of health care with my skills of life coach to help people navigate this really ever-shifting period in their life.Christina Smith:
Beautiful. What a unique set of gifts to put together and really serve people. Because, although I haven't experienced it yet, I know a lot of my clients do go through this, like how do we manage this care? How do we convince mom that she can't drive anymore? How do we get them to give us answers when they don't want to tell us what's going on with their health? There are so many questions, and so what are some of the biggest questions or the biggest struggles that you help adult children with?Mary Remmes:
Well, you touched on a few of them and I think you're so spot on and your listeners are so spot on, because we don't think about this until we find ourselves right in the middle of it, and it's usually because of a crisis. And I find that when we're trying to be in a relationship with our parents in the midst of a crisis, when we're trying to make decisions in crisis mode, there's just so many opportunities for things to go wrong. But to your question about what are the most common things that people face, I think it's important to realize, no matter what we're facing, is that our aging parents' goals for their life are probably vastly different than our goals for their life. In that right, they want to be independent, they want their autonomy and they want to, and they will do that even if it means they're in very risky situations when they may not live as long. That's, their priority is to be independent and live life the way they want to the adult child. Naturally, our goal for them is to stay safe and to keep them alive as long as we possibly can. So you can see, there's this natural conflict that's built in as our aging parents get old and we become more involved in the care and keeping of our aging parents. So I think sometimes just realizing that natural conflict is there is helpful.Christina Smith:
Right, right, and knowing that they're like their own people, right, I mean, that's the big thing. It seems like we're parenting our parents, but we can't really parent Our parents can because they are sovereign individuals on their own, so for us to tell them how to live is hard.Mary Remmes:
It's very hard and you're absolutely right, christina when we have the thought I need to parent my parent. That already puts us out of alignment with who we are in the relationship and who they are in the relationship, so that sets us up for a very, very rocky road. I think that in a perfect world, in an ideal world, if we can have conversations with our parents, small conversations along the way and conversations that have twice as many questions as they do directives- for instance.Christina Smith:
So a lot of listening.Mary Remmes:
And that's not natural for us, but it becomes so important and so valuable for us when we are dealing with aging parents and a lot of small conversations along the way is more productive, but it's not how we're naturally inclined to do it, typically what we do. And ask me how I know this, I did it myself right is we bite our tongue. we sit back and we watch and we start compiling all this evidence for why we think mom should fill in the blank. And then something happens and we're like, okay, I'm going in, we're having the conversation right, it's the come to Jesus meeting.Christina Smith:
At the end of this meeting, you're going to have everything resolved right, and that's not exactly how our conversations work.Mary Remmes:
What happens is that we go in on the offensive and they become defensive and it usually blows up. So having small conversations, asking questions like, for instance, let's say, your mother is a widow and she's still living in the home that you all grew up in and there's a lot of care, that there's a lot of upkeep that is involved with that, instead of saying you know, mom, it's probably time we had the conversation about selling the house that's going to put her on the offensive mode. Right, makes sense from our perspective. This is what needs to happen. But imagine if you went in and said you know, mom, tell me what do you love living in this house by yourself and what's hard about it? Right, tell me both sides and then just listen to what she says. That's just one example of how to ask questions that give you information that's going to be helpful in knowing what direction do we go. What's mom?Christina Smith:
What is it? Yeah, it's almost like becoming a life coach for mom, like. Instead of like saying you have to go do this thing, it's like, well, let's figure out what it is that you're actually craving and what you're actually loving about being in this house, and that'll help us if we do want to move you into a place that you're going to get some of the same things that you're loving and being able to think really deeply about that rather than, oh, this is just a new thing, it's a nice place and there's some people here and you might like them, right. And what I really love that you said earlier was waiting, not waiting until we're in panic mode and fix it mode, and now something really has to change, right, because then we're going in with that energy of like almost force, like this has to change now, because I'm panic that you're unsafe, you're taking risks or you're not going to be able to do this by yourself. And when we're in that mode, I call it halts hungry, angry, lonely, tired, sick. But that's a different type of discomfort, and whenever we're uncomfortable, that is not the best time to have these longer conversations. So starting early is what I'm hearing from you first is like start before you think you might need to, so that you can start figuring these things out ahead of time so there isn't a panic. And then the next step. I'm just summarizing what we've already said because I want to make sure everybody's clear on this, because it's a big topic. Asking lots of questions and listening a lot yeah, fantastic. And we can do the same thing, I'm guessing, if dad's driving and he starts getting tickets or whatever and we start getting unsafe like he still drive. So instead we might be able to ask questions like what?Mary Remmes:
Like that, I would say, and the driving conversation hands down the most volatile conversation and the one that we do the worst at as adult children, because what we do is we take the keys right or we send somebody in and somebody's going to take the fall on this one and I'm going to be the bad guy. And it's just such a difficult time in life and I think that if we can first of all prepare ourselves mentally and just thinking about it from their perspective and I like to remind people remember what it was like when you were 16 and you got your driver's license, your whole world opened up. It was exhilarating, it was just such an expansive feeling. And now the opposite of that is going to be happening, because when somebody no longer drives, their world becomes very small. And so just to have some compassion for how difficult this is for your aging parent and how difficult this for you to be in this role, to be the one to have to guide them to giving up driving but I think I mean you ask what would that look like with that conversation? I think if you have the ability to do it early on, like you know, dad, there might come a day when driving gets to be too much for you. What are the indicators that you want me to bring to your attention, if I ever notice them?Christina Smith:
So instead of using our own indicators sorry, I was just saying instead of using our own indicators, like I think, instead I can be like what is your checkbox? What looks unsafe to you?Mary Remmes:
And just listen right. Because we're going to want to interject, but if we can ask that question and just listen and see what they say, and sometimes they'll shut down. They don't want to have that conversation, right. It's very frightening for them to have that conversation, the fear of losing that. And that's why I say several small conversations, you know so it doesn't go. So maybe they shut down the first time, come back around to the conversation in two weeks or next month. I wouldn't ever recommend having that conversation while you're in the car with them, right? It's a conversation when you're not, you know, when driving isn't even on the table. Just a conversation here, just a natural conversation that you're having, human to human, respecting that one day we're going to be them. How do I want my kid talking to me? How do I want my child to come to me with? I think a lot of this is going to make sense to us when we become them.Christina Smith:
Yeah, too bad, it'll be too old to help them through it. When I think about it, because I did work in some retirement homes and I've, you know, caretaked people who are older, and that was like the biggest thing for them was like moving in meant leaving their cars, because the place that I was at did not have their cars. You know the parents, the kids could be convincing them that, oh, but you have everything you need here, you can order anything here, but it still was hard because it's like giving up control of your own life, and so I really love this way of like you're even bonding a better relationship with them. Right, like this is about really understanding your parents, where maybe a lot of us didn't spend a lot of time really understanding what our parents liked about their life, what they don't like about their life, what they find too hard now, and instead of like I know when my husband talks to his parents, it's just about their health problems like, oh, this is the problem, this is what the doctor said, and blah, blah, blah. Instead of like. But what does that mean for the quality of living that you have? Right, how can I help you increase the quality of your life while you're still here, and I think that this one big one that we were talking about earlier is the thing that hits me is like when you, when we want them to be around, oh, we want them to be around until our kids are getting married and go to the wedding and everything, but that may not be their goal, right? That may not be their goal. Their goal might be I want to live as wild as I can for the next five years rather than you know, trying just to be healthy for the next 25. And I think that that's a real hard conversation rather than well, my opinion's right, because you live longer.Mary Remmes:
You know it's so interesting. I'm glad that you brought that up because it's so important to think about. What am I making their decisions mean about me? You know you said that you brought it up.Christina Smith:
As far as we're telling ourselves about it?Mary Remmes:
Yes, because it's not that they don't want to be around for their grandchildren's wedding. It's that how they live their life is so important to them, and being around for the grandparent or the grandchild's wedding might not be at the top of their list, it doesn't mean that they don't want to be there. It means that they want to structure their life in a way. They want to live their life Right. And one of the things that I think it's so important because we all have a story about who and how our parents are and everything that they do and say. Our brain wants to use evidence to prove our story is correct. So if I think, oh, my dad is just always so obstinate and I attempt to have a conversation with him about driving and he disagrees or he shuts down, I go. Well, there you go. My dad's just obstinate, right as opposed to. This is a hard conversation. This is a hard time in his life because he feels like his world is getting smaller. Maybe it's not obstinate, it is giving up. It's just him processing what he's giving up. Yeah, yeah. So to feel that there's a lot that we give up yeah, there is a lot that we give up and to be able to build on that relationship with them. Because I think we always I'm going to assume that most of us want to create connection with our elderly parents and we inadvertently so many times put up walls because we're over here thinking I've got, I've got to parent my parent right, I've got to make decisions for them to keep them safe, and they're over there thinking they're trying to take control of my life.Christina Smith:
So there's your opposite from when we were children, right? I mean, that's exactly the conversation we had with them, only backwards, like I'm trying to live my life as a teenager and you're trying to keep me down and make all these decisions for me, and that's not fair. I'm an adult, right? And now we're having those same types of conversations and I really love this part about like understanding that it's a story that we're telling ourselves about, about how they're showing up and and, of course, the ego always makes it about us, right. Like oh, they don't care about me. If they don't, if they don't eat well every day and exercise and do all the things that I think they should be doing, they must not care about me. And I think that there is this big part that we have to remember of like freedom of choice, them being able to decide hey, if I want to eat cheeseburgers every day, and that's the quality of life that I want to have, then that's the quality of life I should be able to have. Right, maybe there's a negotiation in there, right for health issues. But if that's really what they want, then that's their choice. And I think that we forget that as they start to become unable to do some things, we start thinking like oh well, then somebody has to take over their life so that they can do these things as long as possible. But their choice might be I'd rather not live forever and have a boring life of. You know, salads and vegetables, right?Mary Remmes:
Yeah, and so there has to be a big respect there. I think that it's advantageous if we can get ourselves to that point of being respectful of what they want, even when we disagree with it, or I would even say, especially when we disagree with it, because adults get to make bad choices every day and we watch people make bad choices every day, and I think it's helpful in this time also to believe, like to remember in this space, that everybody's really doing their best, and sometimes the best isn't very good, and that goes for us too, right?Christina Smith:
We always do our best.Mary Remmes:
Sometimes our best isn't very good, but it's still our best in that moment and allowing that to be enough is really important, especially as we partner in the care for aging parents, because we can go down the path of I should be doing more, this person's doing less, I should. You know, my life doesn't look like theirs. It's just so many, so much drama that we can create for ourselves and if we can have the compassion for ourselves and knowing that I'm doing my best and usually that's pretty good Sometimes it's not very good and I love all of me through it this is a completely different path that we would think of what we had talked about, but I think that it plays into no but I love this because right now I have a client who she lives with her fiance's mother.Christina Smith:
They both do because they were caretaking her, but they wanna move away from that house and she's like trying to tell all of the siblings hey look, there's things going on, we need to be aware, blah, blah, and they're all like we're gonna deal with it when it comes. you know, Like, and so, like, my advice to her was like, well, what are the things that you can actually do? Right, what is that you can actually control? Cause you can't control this woman, you can't control the siblings, what is it that you can control? And once you realize, like, well, hold on, like that is my best, me trying to talk to their siblings is the best, like that's all I'm really responsible for. And I think that you know we can tell ourselves a story because of that discomfort, of like thinking of them hurting themselves or even passing, that we want to control everything. And if they would just, you know, the whole world if the world would just behave the way that I wanted it to.Mary Remmes:
We would be so much favor. We know that everybody should do we do, we do. Sometimes we have a hard time keeping our own lives on track, but we know what everybody else should do.Christina Smith:
Yeah, yeah. So then we can definitely tell ourselves stories about ourselves like I'm not doing enough, I'm not, but we have to also remember that we have to release control of. That is what I'm hearing is that release some of that control, because you aren't their parents, you can't ground them and put them in their room, right, you can't take away their phone and call it a day. And so I love this about having all these teeny, tiny, small conversations, like keeping it as, like this ongoing thing. It's so important because even when people say I'm going to go have this hard conversation and I'm like I hope you don't think you're going to have the end all be all answer at the end of it because most hard conversations do not go that way there's a lot of like okay, I heard you, you heard me. Now we have to go away and process a little bit and really think about what the best way is. Maybe we can have another conversation in two weeks, and that takes the pressure off right Of us having to get offensive, them getting defensive. We're just talking. That's all we're doing is asking questions and talking, which is so important, and lets us just let go of that control.Mary Remmes:
It does. It does you know? I, yeah, it's. I'm glad that you you talked about, you know, having that hard conversation and we kind of touched on that earlier that we go in we all have an agenda and being able to set our agenda aside to listen to what the other person is really thinking and feeling. Most of us are coming with aging parents. Most of us are coming into this motivated by fear Fear of what's gonna happen if or fear that they're gonna fall, or fear that you know something bad is going to happen, and we tend to make our decisions then based on fear, which I have never made a good decision because fueled by fear.Christina Smith:
No, no, especially at panicked fear, right when you're in that state.Mary Remmes:
Yeah, so you know that awareness that you're talking about, that self-awareness of you know, realizing, stepping back and saying, all right, let's slow this down, and it's so. That's one of the things that's kind of ironic. We feel like it's all an emergency because they're old, they don't have much time left right. Their time is limited, which puts a tremendous amount of pressure on us, thinking that we have to make the right decision, or it limits our ability to. What we really need to do is slow everything down and take a step back and say, okay, what's really happening here, what are the facts of the situation, and then sort out those facts from the story that we're telling ourselves about mom or dad.Christina Smith:
Which is the worst case scenario. That's hard to do yeah, yeah.Mary Remmes:
Our brains immediately go to the worst case scenario.Christina Smith:
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Somebody's going to knock on their door and take advantage of them. Somebody is going to, yeah, like, or they, like you said they're going to fall, they're going to get in an accident. We think it's going to happen right now. And that panic state makes us say it has to happen right now, and I've said this to my clients so much whenever you're in that state of it has to happen right now. If it's not an immediate safety concern, like as long as they're not out drinking and driving right now and wobbling all over the road like then, we just need to take a breath and regroup before we get there. So it's interesting that these conversations are the same, no matter how you know. Because couldn't we use these tips for any conversation that we're having? Right, even if it's like a big thing, like I think I might want to divorce my husband or something, well, we don't start with, like, the divorce conversation. We start with lots of little conversations, right, but that's kind of what we're doing to our older parents when we are, when we are like, oh, you need to stop driving today, you need to, we need to find you a home right now to go move to or whatever. Those are big decisions and some of these people you know they've been driving for 60 years, they've been living in the same house maybe for 40 years. That's a lot of change, that's not. And as we get older I don't know, at least for me change takes me a little longer than it used to take right, like in my teenage years. I could take off and go to the beach, but now it's like I got a plan to make sure I have all the things and the reservations you know one thing that I sometimes think about, I wonder, christina, is is our parents' generation, the last generation, why this driving thing is going to be such a big deal?Mary Remmes:
Because you and I and it's definitely not going to be an issue for our kids, for us we're like the first generation that has utilized Uber, lyft, all those things. So that's going to carry us further into our senior years utilizing those services. So I wonder if another two generations this driving conversation it's going to fall to the bottom of issues that families have Kind of super curious about that. I love studying sociology and, you know, going out 30,000 feet in a city I don't know what it's going to be like in 50 years.Christina Smith:
I'm curious too, because as I get older, I mean even now I don't like driving. I wish I had a driver, right. So I mean, as I get older, I may not have that issue so much either, because I'll be like I don't like driving at night either. You're right, I should get a cab or an Uber or Lyft or something, and that would be fine and you can still get around to wherever you want. It's really just those longer drives that you're really missing, and a lot of older people don't drive far right, Like they don't. They just go around town, so it's really not that big of a deal. If they're going on a bigger trip, they're probably going with someone else. And so that might make it easier. Yeah, yeah, that is a question, but we'll always have that question of like when is it time to I hate to say like shorten, but like when is it time to bring down not their rights, but like to really have these conversations of being like, well, you know, this is a really big house, mom Like do you really want to be here forever? You spend all your time taking care of it and it seems like a lot, you know. And so I love these, having these small conversations and we can just further it right, and in these small conversations, would you suggest sharing some of what we feel as well, like some of our concerns, maybe not at a, not at a you have to move right now, kind of thing. But, mom, I do have some concerns about you know how you take care of this, or you know that it's those stairs are too much for you, or whatever it is.Mary Remmes:
It's always an opportunity to do that for the purpose of creating a connection with them, and I think that I'm the advocate for the parent in that. Always defer, I mean I can have. I can have and share my, my fears and my concerns, but what they want always takes precedent.Christina Smith:
And that's where my work is, like I mentioned before, with doing my own work with coming to terms with.Mary Remmes:
I don't like their decision, but I'll respect their decision. Now, if we're in a situation where somebody's got moderate cognitive decline and you know and somebody is in danger of this say there's a spouse or something, that's a whole other conversation, but a parent who is just contiguing in their meals yeah, yeah. And wanting to stay in their home, even if it means they never see anybody. They don't interact with people. They interact with people. The grass is growing Like crazy. I Think it's our job to allow them to be that way as long as possible. I think it's inserting Ourselves and inserting I guess forcing our will on them Always the last resort, like it's nothing else. I think it's always the last resort because I think you asked when do you think? Never, if possible, but never? If possible, the absolute last possible minute.Christina Smith:
Hmm, it's hard and I think about that because my, my grandfather was a little bit Abusive to my grandmother and they were like a real size difference, so it became a lot and so she ended up putting him in a home where he was also abusive but at least there was like orderly, isn't what? Not to take care of that. But like if my, if my mother would have gone in and been like, oh, this is unacceptable, you need to move in a home, he never would have dug that at all. But but I Guess I guess, yeah, this is so interesting because this is really about allowing somebody else to live, even if it makes you uncomfortable, right, even if it makes you uncomfortable that they're in their own home alone or driving. This is really about managing our discomfort around it and Recognizing that they are still their own human and can still, you know, make their own choices. Now, what happens when they are in a cognitive decline? Like what if they're living at home and they're constantly forgetting to turn the stove off or you know something? Dangerous things are happening. How do we, how does that change at all?Mary Remmes:
The way that we manage that. You can change things and I think that the most important thing In that situation is to be certain that you've got all of your legal ducks in a row and that you've got, because you know there's different levels of legalities, like the durable power of attorney for medical decisions, for financial decisions, etc. And this is the great area that adult children live in for a very long time and it's very uncomfortable for us. You can I mean you can, you can force somebody into a secure living environment, but it's just you just want to avoid that at all costs. So in this situation where somebody is becoming Forgetful, they're leaving the stove on. I'd probably disconnect the stove. I mean, there's a lot of things that we can do to create a safe environment.Christina Smith:
Before we actually yeah we have to play the part of I'm forcing you so the least amount of intrusion that we can do. Yes, I'm saying and there are organizations.Mary Remmes:
There's companies out there that can help you. Go in. They can. They can go in and do an assessment in the home and Make a recommendation for you all the things that you can do to create a safe environment. We're very good. We live in a time and a day and age where we can have Uber eats deliver food most places well, not some real, real world places, no but you can have groceries delivered. I mean, there's a lot of things that we have in place now that make Somebody being alone in their own, even when they've got some mild cognitive impairment, it still makes it possible. Hmm, even, you know, having somebody go out and check on them, you know, once a day, or. There's a lot of things that we can put in place to, like you said, create bumpers to keep them in the home. Yeah, they want to be there.Christina Smith:
Yeah, and that's a really beautiful way of doing it right. And then it may come for them that, like over time, there's so many bumpers that it just would be more comfortable living in another place than being, you know, at home, which is fine, you know, but again that becomes their choice. What a lovely conversation. I don't think I've ever even when I worked in the retirement homes like I've never had these types of conversations to really Understand. Usually, when, by the time they've come to our retirement home or our care home, it was already decided whether or not they enjoyed it, and you could tell the ones who enjoyed it and the ones who did not. And I mean, even even there I don't know if there's studies on this, but the more that they hated having to move out of their home and and going somewhere else, it seems like the shorter their lifespan was anyway, because they were so angry about it. And there was plenty of times where there was one older man who would Steal the limo from out front and like drive home, and we'd have to like go find him again because he didn't have his car anymore or he wanted to go home to his car and, and so he would always have to go to his house to find him because he would be outside going. Why don't my keys fit anymore, you know? And so so, allowing them to live with their own dignity as how they want to, as long as they can, as long as they're being safe ish, because we're always gonna have ideas. Right, just like when we have teenage kids, we're gonna have ideas of what safe is and they're gonna have ideas what safe is, and they rarely do the two actually meet, and so this has been a really lovely conversation. What I learned about today was to start earlier than you think. You Don't start before you think. You need to have the conversation right now so that you can really get to know your parents and here you know what it is that they want and so that you can really get to know them a little bit, like what is it that you like about your life and what is it that you don't like about how hard or the hardness of getting old and what you know. What can I help you with? Rather than? This needs to change right now, because I deem it's not safe, which is not the best way to go For somebody who's had like sovereignty over their own choices for 70, 80 years. It can be really challenging, so start these conversations as soon as possible. Lots of questions, lots of listening and yeah, what a lovely way to move forward and then let control. Let control go and realize that that's not really your job.Mary Remmes:
Yeah, the only thing that you can control is how do you show up in the conversation with them. And I would add Please give yourself so much grace and so much. Just be exquisitely kind to yourself, because this is hard stuff, me and you. You're not going to get it right all the time, that's okay. We just have to be so kind to ourselves. I think it's in the being kind to ourselves that we have a greater capacity to extend that compassion and kindness to the other humans in our world and we forget that, and then we also take on less guilt about like I couldn't control that.Christina Smith:
Well, no, you can't control that right. Like that's not, that's beyond your control. And I love because it's what I always say to my clients the only thing that you can control is the way that you show up, that's it. You can't control how other people are going to behave or other things are going to happen, but you always can control the way that you show up. And so getting to those conversations early, I know for me would be so much better than getting into that panic spot of like, oh, now we're worried about this risk, the safety risk or whatever. What a lovely conversation. Thank you, Mary. I know that you have a little gifty gift for us. You want to tell us about that.Mary Remmes:
I do. I have a little. It's a. It's a little training that I put together that I've done for years, and it's called how to feel better, no matter how crazy your situation feels. And it's just a. It's a. It's a 20 minute video with a worksheet that you work through and you come to the video with, whatever your situation is. It can involve aging parents, it can involve anything a teenage daughter, a husband, anything. I show you how to break it down and get clarity around what's really happening, how you're currently thinking about it and how you want to think about it, moving forward so that you feel at least a little bit better about whatever's happening. And that, um, yeah, that that'll be available on our website.Christina Smith:
Yeah, I'll put it right, the link right below, so you can go click it and click on that. That sounds really lovely because we all need that's a way that we can start pooling our stories out like what's real data versus what are we making up around it, because we've seen so many scary stories.Mary Remmes:
Yes, we're all good storytellers.Christina Smith:
We are excellent storytellers. Often we don't even know we're telling stories. We take it as truth and and that's where our struggles can often lie. Thank you so much for being here today and thank you, shifters for tuning in yeah. I saw you when I was talking about it, and thank you, shifters, for tuning in too, and I hope that this was helpful, especially if you're having struggles with, I mean, this. This conversation is really helpful, not just with aging parents, but basically anyone, because it like shows us that we don't really have control over other people. But having these small conversations and trying to understand that other person's point of view first is going to be a lot more helpful than just pushing forward with what we think and what we know and controlling the situation. So lovely. Thank you so much again and y'all have a great day.